Both of the stories we're reading this week are war stories. I suspect war stories are so popular because they always have an overriding conflict--the conflict of war--and b/c that allows authors to explore smaller, simpler, more common conflicts within that conflict. What war stories do you like--either fiction or film--any? How do these two stories work within the conventions of the traditional war story and how do they challenge them?
I've read two responses that refer to the narrator of "Evie M." as "he." This raises an interesting question: How do we know the gender of a first person narrator? How do we know the gender of this one? Of "Kattekoppen"? Can we assume that soldiers are always men?
What are these narrators like? How do we create images of them in our minds? As Tysean points out elsewhere, the narrator of "Evie M." (why is it titled that?) is very observant. Creepily so. And strangely exact--she says that her manager "enjoyed" making her nervous (195) and then immediately corrects herself to state that he "Enjoys." What do you make of the fact that the narrator of the other story refers to the two missing men as Chin and No Chin?
What do you make of the conclusions of these stories? Evie seems to be pretty close to suicide and yet afraid of what she'll miss on her shows. And in Mackin's story, the army is in the process of destroying one of their own military trucks. This seems to be some kind of competition between Levi and MJ, about who will keep the liaison position. But why this image for the end of the story?
What do you make of that scene on p. 208 where the Navy Seals come across that village where the lights suddenly come on?
I believe Evie M is a male because the only reference to being a female is the fact he felt like a school girl around her supervisor. In the beginning of the story it talks about her ejaculating. he also reflected on a time that his father taught him how to play ball. although fathers do that with their daughters there were more suggestings to a male narrator than female. Its easier to assume a male in a war story also going through PTSD. I never really heard of woman experiencing it plus the no knowledge of how to cook not even microwave so to me there are more indications this can be a man
ReplyDeleteIn Kattekoppen I think its more easier to picture male soldiers its has a tougher tone than Evie M. Since the author talks about the other men in his unit being men you would assume he is also, to be a women in a mans unit and theres no reference to anyone hitting on you is rare
I think that Evie corrects herself by saying "enjoys" rather than "enjoyed" to imply that she doesn't actually commit suicide because he continues to enjoy making her nervous. However, I am still convinced that Evie is a male, not because I have an image of all soldiers being men, but because of the way I pictured him making his way to McDonald's, and hopelessly sitting on the floor by the copying machine, and making his pathetic pre-made microwavable dinners. Also, by the way he spoke about the artist and the cartoon he read in an e-mail.
ReplyDeleteI think that the narrator referred to the two missing soldiers as Chin and No Chin because he didn't want to give a gender or even identity to them. I think this is because it didn't matter- they were going to search day in and day out for their missing soldiers regardless.
I think that both authors purposely kept the gender of the narrators hidden so that we would kind of take a step back and realize that they could be male or female. Although I still feel Evie is a man, I can see how he can be thought to be a woman, but I like that this was pointed out to me.
I believe the two war stories work well with the convections of the traditional war stories because its like letting us see what we don't know about the war. In Evie M how he lets us know about how hard life can be after the war, trying to conform to regular life and in kattekoppen it tries to tell us the dramatics of what soldiers go through, missing their families being kidnapped and killed. I really don't like any war films too sad
ReplyDeleteBoth of these war stories are interesting in their own unique way. Evie M. is about a guy who seems to keep contemplating on whether he should take his own life or not. He also gives us a little insight in his life by explaining what life was like as a solider and all the crap he had to put up with. In the story Kattekoppen, the narrator talks about life in Afghanistan and what he witnessed while he was there.
ReplyDeleteWhen i initially started reading Evie M, i thought the narrator was female, due to the name. However towards the end of the introduction I saw the narrator use the word " ejaculating" and then I switched my thought to the narrator being a guy. We can't really say that all soliders are men because there are some female soliders to. Generally speaking soilders are looked at to be male figures because men are more likely to enroll themselves in the military. When reading these stories I visualized Evie M. to be a stocky looking guy, with a buzz cut and tiny red freckles on his cheek. In the second story I visualized the narrator to be a tall and skinny guy, who seems like he just wants to get a better understanding of who the people around him are. When reading the second story, I realized that the narrator named two characters Chin and No Chin. I thought that they were given the name because one has a chin and the other doesn't. I believe the authors ended their stories that way because they wanted the reader to create a visual picture in their mind as to what comes next or possibly what the outcome would be for each narrator.
I was unsure about the gender of Evie. The line, "Her Crimson mouth was parted in the photo, and for an instant I couldn't help but picture myself ejaculating." Made me think that Evie was a man.Then the line, "His smile made me feel like a school girl humiliated by her teacher." made me think that it was a woman. The name Evie sounds effeminate as well as the style of writing. I don't picture men as observant and descriptive as women. The first time I read it I honestly forgot about the first line I quoted and thought of the narrator as a lesbian. Then I had to read back and try to figure it out. We can't always assume that girls talk or behave in a certain fashion and vice versa. We have to recognize that there are variations of gender roles. In Evie M. you can see how her life is pushing her further into her decision to commit suicide but I think just as she doesn't want to miss her show, Helen and her family doesn't want to miss hers.
ReplyDeletei assumed the gender of evie e is a male because the narrator was often turned on by women picture and used the term ejaculate which pushes me to the main character being a male. i believe many soldiers can be women but this character pushed more toward a male. of kattekoppen i assumed the soldiers were male because of the way the acted.
ReplyDeleteevie seems to be pretty close to suicide which show his depression and daily struggle with everyday he seems to just be worried about missing his shows only and not about the people in his life. i believe they show the image for the end of the story because they want to prove them self and show how tough they are. it also seems that they are easily replaceable.
i believe the title evie m fit the story because it basically about evie life and what he goes through daily and all his thoughts going on in his head. i belive evie himself is very creepy in the way he live his life and what matters the most to him.
i thought evie was a guy but after seeing reason why she is not i think the character wanted to point out that the boss is a mall to show that he is more superior than her.
The conclusion of Evie M. is a bit underwhelming. One would expect the protagonist to turn thoughts into action, but ultimately there isn't any suicide. I'd go as far as saying that Evie has too weak a mind for this situation, and uses the television as an excuse to postpone it.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed the ending of Kattekoppen. The military truck they destroy belonged to Chin and No Chin if I'm not mistaken. I feel as if it's probably their way of putting their minds at ease after the death of two fellow soldiers. The memory of is probably strengthened, in this instance, during the liaison competition.
In the story Evie M, I figured at first that it was a woman by the name and also the fact that the narrator loved to watch soap opera re-runs. Most of the time that's a woman type of hobby its very rare you see a man, doing such a thing, but as I began to read more in depth of the story, when it started to speak of war I figured it had to be a male. Most of the time men are the first sent out to war. I believe Evie M is titled Evie M because the story is mostly about Evie, about her life and what she has to go through and experience now that shes no longer a soldier anymore and living real life and reality that consist of working, paying bills and meeting new people. On page 208 I visualized the scene as soldiers invading a village searching for their men This village had women and children and men living there and in conclusion people were killed. Women were running to gather their children, children were wakened by the violence they heard outside there door.
ReplyDeleteI presume the gender of the narrator in Evie M. is female because when she got out of the military and back into civilian life her boss who is a male was hovering over her and patting her on her shoulder some things Women face these days when they work that is sexual harassment. Also her name is Evie , that is a girl's name. We can clearly identify the gender of the soldier in Kattepon because it feres to him as male. I think the narrator in Kattekopen refers to the two missing soldiers asChin and no Chin because he might'vebeen referring to their body types or adam's apple.
ReplyDeleteWe can know the gender of the first person by the choice of words that were chosen. They way they are explaining their everyday routine. Their interests. In "Evie" it was kind of confusing to tell but in my opinion its a girl.
ReplyDeleteIn Kattekoppen we can't always assume that the soldiers are men. There are female soldiers also but most are men.
The conclusions of both these stories ended well in my opinion especially since Evie didn't kill herself. Wars can make soldiers do things that they don't want to but their minds are so stressed with trying to stay alive and protect their fellow soldiers.
I think I like any type of war story, be it a film, fiction, or nonfiction. The one thing that I don't like though, is when it is full of lies. Yes, that's right, I'm talking about ones similar to How To Tell A True War Story.. That story, from what I remember, is inconsistent and over-glorifies events that aren't even true. Sorry for the small rant.
ReplyDelete"Evie M." challenges the traditional war story by not telling a war story. Rather, the narrator tells us bits and pieces of what she experienced in the war in comparison to how she has to deal with her new lifestyle. It's different because we, the readers, are being told about what comes after serving in the military and the troubles of having to try to be a civilian again.
We don't necessarily know the genders of both stories. What we can do is make guesses though. Honestly, I think that the narrator of "Evie M." is a woman because of the way her boss acts towards her. No male boss would hover around and touch the back of the neck of a male employee. No, that is something that happens more to women. Soldiers aren't always men. There are women in the military force too. Even on the news this morning, a news anchor was covering the story of a female soldier that had passed away in 2011 (or was it 2009) . . .
It all depends on what it is all about. Sure I love films that actually took place such as documentaries. But I would prefer fiction because there's always something interesting bound to happen. Something out of the ordinary.
ReplyDeleteThese stories that I read do work within the conventions of the traditional war stories. I mean there's one example for each one. In Evie M it talks about a veteran who cooks sirloin steak in a microwave. You can tell she isn't use to her surroundings. After being in war for so long a piece of her was left behind on the battle field. In kattekoppen it shows what a solider been through. Seeing his comrades die all around him is brutal. He eats the licorice to help erase the smell of the dead corpses.
We know the gender of the character is a girl. Yes many argued that it's a man because they say "ejaculation". That doesn't mean anything. She looks at the picture and says that the man "had a small limp cock". I can't imagine a women say that and there's Helen as well in the story. They mustive been lovers of some sort.
The scene was pretty brutal. I can only imagine,,,,
I believe we learn the gender of a first person narrator through given clues such as if they describe a certain item they like to wear or their physical characteristics. In Evie M. I thought the gender of the narrator was a man. However, I did not look in to too much details regarding the gender. I did not feel that it was relevant. I believe most people assume soldiers are men because of the stereotype of women. I perceive the narrator of Evie M to be a male that is awkward, thin and has some disorder possibly OCD. It seems as if everything has to be perfect. He is a former veteran/soldier. He is very exact and observant. For example when speaking about his sirloin he stated that it couldn't be cooked over a minute or it would be ruined. .....
ReplyDeletewhen it comes to war stories i would say i prefer film only because in film you can see the gory details of a body. i like being able to imagine it as i read but seeing it brings more excitement to me. like in the scene in Kattenpoppin where they describe the after effects of the explosion, i would have liked to see it. a few of my favorite war stories full metal jacket and saving private ryan. in both the gory details of war plus the mental effect it can have on some people is depicted very well i think.
ReplyDeletei think that people automatically put the role of a soldier as played by a man and thats why automatically when you hear its a story of a soldier, you think man. also the name plays a role. in Evie M. i didnt think man more because the name evie is a female name to me. in fact when the narrator spoke about helen i said to myself oh shes a lesbian. the name has such a strong effect that i knew evie was retired from the military because normally they refer to you by your last name when youre in the service...
I particularly enjoy war as depicted on film. This is because the conflict is better depicted through gore and realistic visual images. A book can allow one to explore their imagination and visualize the descriptions, but a film can further enhance the reality of war.
ReplyDeleteSometimes we cannot truly known whether a narrator is male or female. Sometimes there are not enough given clues to identify the narrator's gender. We can't assume that soldiers are always male because women can be soldiers as well. It is more common to see a male soldier, but we cannot truly base that on the characters in a story, let alone a fictional story.
Regarding the end of both stories, I believe the authors left them that way in order to create a cliffhanger. Some authors feel that they don't need to answer all the questions in the story and instead feel that they can stop at a certain point. This leaves the reader with a plethora of questions that only their imaginative thoughts can answer. Sometimes it is better to leave a story at a certain point and leave the audience to decide what will happen next. When the reader finishes the story, they won't simply put down the book and forget about it, they will actually take the time to think about all of the unanswered mysteries that remain. So by using this method, the authors are able to keep their audience thinking about the story even further.
When it comes to war stories, people in tend to either read stories about war or watch movies or television series. The reason for people to be interested in this topic whether it is fiction or non-fiction is because people like to hear about these stories. When one is reading a non-fiction story, we get an insight on what it was like for the person who fought in a war. One fiction war story I read was "All Quiet on The Western Front" which is about a group of German students who were convinced by their professor to join the army. These young guys enthusiastically joined the army and as they were sent to the Western Front. The narrator and his friends soon found out about the horrors of war. As the years go by the narrator's friends are either killed or severely wounded.
ReplyDeletewhen it comes to war stories i would say i prefer film only because in film you can see the gory details of a body. i like being able to imagine it as i read but seeing it brings more excitement to me. like in the scene in Kattenpoppin where they describe the after effects of the explosion, i would have liked to see it. a few of my favorite war stories full metal jacket and saving private ryan. in both the gory details of war plus the mental effect it can have on some people is depicted very well i think.
ReplyDeletei think that people automatically put the role of a soldier as played by a man and thats why automatically when you hear its a story of a soldier, you think man. also the name plays a role. in Evie M. i didnt think man more because the name evie is a female name to me. in fact when the narrator spoke about helen i said to myself oh shes a lesbian. the name has such a strong effect that i knew evie was retired from the military because normally they refer to you by your last name when youre in the service...